Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/30/1999 09:07 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 30, 1999
9:07 AM
TAPES
SFC-99 #115, Sides A and B
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair John Torgerson convened the meeting at
approximately 9:07 A.M.
PRESENT
In addition to Co-chair Torgerson, Senators Gary Wilken,
Lyda Green, Randy Phillips and Al Adams were present when
the meeting was convened.
Also Attending: DARWIN PETERSON, staff to Senator John
Torgerson; JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director, Storage Tank
Assistance, Division of Spill Prevention & Response,
Department of Environmental Conservation; STEVEN DAUGHERTY,
Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law; JIM HAYDEN,
Manager, Storage Tank, Department of Environmental
Conservation; Senator DRUE PEARCE, Senate President; JIMMY
JACKSON, GCI; aides to committee members and other members
of the Legislature.
Attending via Teleconference:
SUMMARY INFORMATION
Co-chair Torgerson convened the meeting at approximately
9:14 a.m. He outlined the order in which the committee
would hear the bills on the agenda in the following order:
SB 128, SB 133; the committee would not hear SB 151, and
then they would go to SB 157 and SB 67.
SENATE BILL NO. 128
"An Act relating to the storage tank assistance fund;
eliminating the grant portion of a program relating to
risk assessment, containment, corrective action, and
cleanup of underground petroleum storage tank systems
and replacing the grant portion with a loan program;
relating to discharges from underground petroleum
storage tank systems; and providing for an effective
date."
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 128(RES)
"An Act moving the termination date of the Board of
Storage Tank Assistance to June 30, 1999; relating to
the storage tank assistance fund; relating to
financial assistance for owners and operators of
underground petroleum storage tank systems; relating
to discharges from underground petroleum storage tank
systems; and providing for an effective date."
DARWIN PETERSON, staff to Senator John Torgerson was
invited to join the committee. He explained the changes
made to the bill that were reflected in the new CS, version
"K".
(Arrival of Senator Donley noted for the record.)
Senator Adams query. Mr. Peterson responded that
amendment #2 was intended to clean up the bill. He
explained page 7, line 28, the deletion of "or the value of
rights to patents or royalties".
Senator Wilken referred to page 7, line 22 and asked if
this spoke to potential earnings. Mr. Peterson responded.
Senator Wilken asked if it anticipated future earnings?
Senator Green commented. Co-chair Torgerson said if
amendment #2 were to be taken out perhaps that would take
care of the matter. He thought this would provide a
compromise.
Senator Donley commented to amendment #2.
Senator Wilken referred to enclosure #2 and explained the
original intent at the time. It was to get away from
corporate welfare.
Senator Phillips referred to amendment #1 and asked if it
was incorporated? Co-chair Torgerson said it had already
been incorporated into the new CS.
Senator Wilken MOVED CSSB 128 "K" and WITHOUT OBJECTION it
was ADOPTED as the working draft before the committee.
Senator Donley MOVED amendment #2 and WITHOUT OBJECTION it
was ADOPTED.
Senator Adams said he would like to hear from the
department.
JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director, Storage Tank Assistance,
Division of Spill Prevention & Response, Department of
Environmental Conservation was invited to join the
committee.
In response to Senator Donley he explained section 7, line
12. The language would not change the effective date.
Senator Phillips asked about the amendment and if it was
supported by the Department of Law.
STEVEN DAUGHERTY, Assistant Attorney General, Department of
Law was invited to join the committee.
Mr. Barnett continued. He suggested the language be looked
at to cover additional costs in the loan. He thought
approximately $500,000 would be adequate.
Mr. Daugherty commented briefly to the committee. Co-chair
Torgerson cautioned that the amendment was in place.
Patents and royalties are difficult to consider and place
values on. It would be much easier to enforce a definition
that excluded those nebulous situations.
Mr. Barnett commented regarding probable future benefits.
Co-chair Torgerson asked if this needed to be cleared up
for Senator Wilken. Senator Wilken said if this was the
accepted language that it was okay with him.
Senator Green commented. She noted that the title included
the Board of Storage Tank Assistance. Was it still
appropriate to terminate the Board of Storage Tank
Assistance? Co-chair Torgerson said he thought that it
was.
The committee took a brief at ease.
Co-chair Torgerson called the meeting back to order at
approximately 9:47 a.m.
Senator Phillips asked about amendment #3. Mr. Daugherty
recognized the amendment.
Senator Phillips MOVED amendment #3. Co-chair Torgerson
OBJECTED.
Mr. Daugherty explained the amendment and said on page one,
line eight, the correct date should be June 30, 1999.
Senator Phillips MOVED to delete the date of June 20, 1999
and insert the correct date of June 30, 1999 on page one,
line eight. WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED.
Mr. Daugherty continued saying this would keep from having
to address all the regulations.
There followed a brief conversation between Senators Donley
and Phillips.
Mr. Daugherty advised that if some of the regulations were
repealed there would be a potential for litigation without
this amendment.
Co-chair Torgerson referred to line three of amendment #3.
Mr. Daugherty said there were regulations that were adopted
directly by the board. This authority was to the board.
Senator Donley said it might be more prudent to adopt
regulations to the department since they were the ones who
had to live with it, especially since Storage Tank was
going out of business, but the department would remain.
Mr. Daugherty briefly responded.
Senator Donley said he was not asking about legal problems
but rather public policy problems. Mr. Daugherty again
responded.
Mr. Barnett explained the relationship of the board to the
department. The industry did not want full authority to
draft hostile regulations. Their intent was to have a
board made up to actually develop financial assistance.
The board was to act as an appeal board to resolve
disputes. The board's authority was over the department.
Co-chair Torgerson said his intent was to take the
department away and not the board. Same as with
Harborview.
Senator Green said she has heard great concern over the
loss of the board rather than the department.
Senator Phillips asked that wherever the words "DEC"
appeared they should be deleted from amendment #3 on lines
3, 4 and 11.
Senator Wilken would like to hear from the department if
there would be any problems created by this.
Mr. Daugherty explained that under current statutes there
were authorities that need to be exercised that were not
granted under this bill. The board has primary authority
over finance and the department primary authority over the
"job".
Senator Wilken would like the department's comments on
amendment to amendment #3.
JIM HAYDEN, Manager, Storage Tank, Department of
Environmental Conservation was invited to join the
committee. He explained the association between the board
and the department. The department adopts regulations that
cover everything except finance matters which is covered by
the board. If the language were changed it would be
inconsistent and further, be unworkable. Co-chair
Torgerson said the only one who could adopt regulations
would be the Storage Tank Assistance who has responsibility
over this matter. The department would not be excluded.
However, Mr. Hayden said it would still be inconsistent.
He deferred to the Department of Law.
By a roll call vote of 4 yeas (Torgerson, Donley, Green,
Phillips) and 3 nays (Wilken, Adams, Kelly) (Parnell, Leman
absent) amendment to amendment #3 was ADOPTED.
By a roll call vote of 6 yeas (Torgerson,Donley, Wilken,
Kelly, Green, Phillips) and 1 nay (Adams) (Parnell, Leman
absent) amendment #3 was ADOPTED.
Senator Donley asked that the record reflect that Senator
Leman was excused due to broken ribs. Co-chair Torgerson
ordered the record to so reflect.
Senator Donley MOVED amendment #4. There was miscellaneous
discussion between the members regarding this conceptual
amendment. Senator Donley explained the maximum cap on
loans.
By a roll call vote of 4 yeas (Torgerson, Donley, Adams,
Phillips) and 3 nays (Wilken, Kelly, Green) (Parnell, Leman
absent) amendment #4 was ADOPTED.
Senator Phillips MOVED CSSB 128 (FIN) and WITHOUT OBJECTION
it was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and
accompanying fiscal notes.
The committee took a brief at ease.
Co-chair Torgerson recalled the committee back to order.
He called SB 133 and asked the sponsor to come forward.
SENATE BILL NO. 133
"An Act creating and providing for the Alaska Energy
Conservation Commission and transferring to it the
powers and duties of the Alaska Public Utilities
Commission and the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation
Commission; repealing the Alaska Public Utilities
Commission and the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation
Commission; relating to regulation of waste collection
and disposal; relating to the powers of the chair of
the Alaska Energy Conservation Commission; relating to
the appellate procedures of the Alaska Energy
Conservation Commission; and providing for an
effective date."
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 133(RES)
"An Act creating and providing for the Alaska Energy
Conservation Commission and transferring to it certain
powers and duties of the Alaska Public Utilities
Commission; transferring regulation of pipelines to
the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission;
repealing the Alaska Public Utilities Commission;
relating to regulation of waste collection and
disposal; relating to the powers of the chair of the
Alaska Energy Conservation Commission; relating to the
appellate procedures of the Alaska Energy Conservation
Commission; and providing for an effective date."
Senator Drue Pearce was invited to join the committee. She
explained the changes in the work draft. Page 1 was now
the regulatory commission of Alaska. The refuse section
had been deleted from the title.
On page two, lines 22 through 24 regarding the removal of a
commissioner, additional language was adopted from HB 183
as suggested by the Administration. Page three, line 23,
would allow for contractual arrangements.
Page five would establish a separate public advocacy
section. Also on page five, lines 10 through 13 the
requirement for the commission to adopt matters regarding
time frames was added. Noting a technical correction on
page five, line 10 the date should be 1999 rather than
2000.
Page seven, lines 19 through 21 was the decision to grant
appeals at the discretion of the commission.
Page seven, lines 30 through 31 set out formal hearings to
be heard by arbitrators for a specific reason.
Page eight, lines 10 through 13, concerned a time
management system. This had always been the intent of the
Legislature.
Page nine dealt with refuse.
Pages ten and eleven were the name change to the
commission.
Page twelve, lines 2 through 5 indicated that the
management information system was to be available to the
public. Also on page twelve, lines 24 through 28 outlined
the change of terms for the commissioners. It also
included further name changes.
Going back to page three, lines 11 through 15, section
42.04.040 (a) she requested to delete "the legal counsel
provided by the Department of Law is subject to the
approval of the commission." She also advised that the
Department of Law would like (b) to also be deleted.
However, she requested the committee to not consider that
request at this point. They will continue discussion with
the Department of Law.
She explained briefly the fiscal note from the Department
of Administration.
Senator Green MOVED the adoption of work draft CSSB 133FIN)
"K". Senator Kelly OBJECTED.
The committee took a brief at ease.
Senator P. Kelly MOVED exclusion language on page three,
lines 25 and 26, lines 14 and 15. Senator Torgerson
OBJECTED. Senator Pearce commented briefly. She noted
that there had always been the ability to hire outside
expertise.
Senator P. Kelly briefly commented. Senator Donley said
this bill was incredibly complicated and would like to have
further input. He referred specifically to lines 25 and 26
of page three. Senator Pearce said the Department of Law
was present and could testify to this.
Senator P. Kelly removed his OBJECTION.
Senator Donley MOVED to amend the CS to delete lines 14 and
15. Co-chair Torgerson and Senator Green OBJECTED.
By a roll call vote 2 yeas and 4 nays amendment to the main
motion to adopt the CS FAILED.
Therefore, WITHOUT OBJECTION CSSB 133(FIN)"K" was adopted
as the working draft before the committee. Amendments 11
and 12 were adopted WITHOUT OBJECTION.
Senator Donley commented on page four. Senator Adams said
a big problem was that there was no professional background
on the commissions and boards. This should be considered.
In a response to a question posed by Senator P. Kelly
Senator Pearce said they could not figure out a way to
define what they wanted regarding the AOGCC. They have
asked the different utilities to advise what they would
like for specific qualifications to be a member of the
APUC. Suggested language had been provided by ARECA
however she was not satisfied with it. The House took an
innovative approach but she did not agree with that,
either. Senator Pearce indicated that she was open to
suggestions at this time to try and iron this out.
Senator Donley asked what happened to the existing
personnel at APUC and how was their role preserved within
this new CS? Senator Pearce said there were structural
provisions made. She also explained the transition. Up
until now staff was hired and fired under the commission
but that will change under this bill.
(There followed a brief pause on record.)
(Tape changed from #115, Side B to #116, Side A.)
JIMMY JACKSON, GCI was invited to join the committee. He
told the committee that they suggested the transfer date be
September. There was concern about the commissions' staff
and do they just disappear. He strongly urged that the
present structure be retained. The system works so why
change it. He noted vague allegations about abuse. Some
states have advocacy, some combine functions. Alaska,
however, is not an exception and the system works very
well. He further suggested that they do not pass the
section that sets up specific advocacy. It should be left
as is. The role of the commissions' staff would remain
unchanged.
Senator Donley requested time to consider the public
advocacy section. He felt that it was very significant.
He still has concerns about not having some sort of final
deadline for the new agency to make decisions. It should
not be left totally open for them to decide.
Co-chair Torgerson said this was the first body to hear the
bill and there was still time to fix matters.
Senator Adams MOVED CSSB 133. Senator Donley OBJECTED. By
a roll call vote of 4 yeas and 1 nay (Donley) CSSB 133(FIN)
was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and
accompanying fiscal note from the Department of
Administration; $330.4.
ADJOURNMENT
Senator Torgerson said he would announce the committee
schedule on the floor.
He adjourned the committee at approximately 11:07 a.m.
SFC-99 (1) 04/30/99
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